Ladybird, a truly independent web browser.
Video announcement by Chris Wanstrath (GitHub co-founder) of the 501(c) non-profit and $1,000,000 donation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9edTqPMX_k
rekabis 24 points in 2 days
We don't have anyone actively working on Windows support, […] We would like to do Windows eventually, but it's not a priority at the moment.
As much as I applaud this focus on just one broad OS architecture, as it will greatly speed development, leaving out Windows is likely to cut off 85-90% of all early adopters. I just hope that the benefit of a simplified target will outweigh ignoring the vast majority of the market.
And honestly, methinks they should focus on Haiku OS before Windows, as it is closer to a Unix heritage than Windows is. And Haiku OS desperately needs a native modern web browser with all the bells and whistles.
24UndercoverUlrikHD 1 point today
I'd hazard as guess that Linux users are at least a magnitude more likely to be an early adopter of this project than Windows users, at 4% market share it shouldn't be that big of problem at the start.
1LeFantome 3 points tomorrow
They do not need early adopters yet. They know it is too early. It makes sense to focus on progress. Outreach can happen later when they are more technically ready.
3BatmanAoD 4 points tomorrow
Why do you think most early adopters use Windows exclusively?
4Lmaydev 8 points tomorrow
Well Linux desktop is at 4% so it's cutting out 96% of the market.
8msage 1 point tomorrow
If you are tech-savvy and looking for alternatives, you won't use Windows.
1onlinepersona 36 points in 3 days
I will never understand why people name stuff just by opening an English dictionary and simply picking a word.
Also why start a browser with C++? Google and Mozilla don't employ nincompoops to work on their browsers and still say 70% of their CVEs are due to memory management errors from C++. Instead of learning from that, they start yet another browser in C++.
In theory it great that this org wants to make an alternative, and probably being funded by a millionaire (billionaire?) can't hurt, but C++ man? Come on...
36QuadriLiteral 1 point today
Cross-platform and performant, are there options besides C++ and rust?
1For anybody else with the same question…
The Ladybird browser started as a part of the SerenityOS Project. SerenityOS had adopted Ladybug imagery before the browser was conceived. “Ladybird” seemed like a perfectly reasonable name for a core component of the OS given its existing iconography.
It was ( and is ) as good name in context.
Ladybird has decided to split with its SerenityOS roots. I have pretty mixed feelings on that. Regardless, it would be silly to change the name at this point.
The same history applies to C++. SerenityOS is written in C++. Until the split, the OS and browser were maintained in a mono repo with extremely deep code integration and coordination. They share the same custom C++ standard library and coding conventions for example.
SerenityOS was started as a very personal project and the original author is ( or was ) a fan of C++. While I am personally not a fan, it seems like a perfectly reasonable language choice to write an OS in.
7constableunstable 17 points in 2 days
I will never understand why people name stuff just by opening an English dictionary and simply picking a word
Naming stuff is hard.
17Yeah, but not that hard.
- La bird
- BB.Bird (baby bird)
- Birdanzo
- Lanzango
- Chicbee
- Elburd (el bird)
- Birday
- Bowsun
- Baysen
- Lirsi
- Slay BC
You can even put effort into it and look for translations in other languages, combine them, use a colloquialism not found in the standard dictionary, or so many other things.
-12
vikingtons
81 points
in 3 daysFrom.the FAQ
Why build a new browser in C++ when safer and more modern languages are available? Ladybird started as a component of the SerenityOS hobby project, which only allows C++. The choice of language was not so much a technical decision, but more one of personal convenience. Andreas was most comfortable with C++ when creating SerenityOS, and now we have almost half a million lines of modern C++ to maintain.
However, now that Ladybird has forked and become its own independent project, all constraints previously imposed by SerenityOS are no longer in effect. We are actively evaluating a number of alternatives and will be adding a mature successor language to the project in the near future. This process is already quite far along, and prototypes exist in multiple languages.
81
SubArcticTundra
18 points
in 2 daysIt's crazy that SerenityOS decided to re-write their everything from scratch, to suit them. I wish I coukd do that too, but I don't have the resources.
18refalo -5 points tomorrow
I will never understand why people are so miserable they feel the need to post grumpy and meaningless bad takes all day every day, with unenforceable anti-AI meme text in every post.
-5
JackbyDev
1 point
tomorrowgrumpy and meaningless bad takes all day every day
You don't sound grumpy at all though lol
1
Zier
-22 points
in 3 daysAgree with naming laziness. Ladybird is the name of a Lady Bug. Sick to death of things being named after animals. It's a computer program not a living entity, it has no gender either. Even a nonsense word would be preferable to this mess. Lets call it Zalyo. No one else has that made up word, easy to search.
-22Telorand 25 points in 3 days
I don't mind the name, but if we're throwing out wishlist names, I vote for "'Zombo,' the browser where you can do anything!"
25
RootBeerGuy
21 points
in 3 daysI mean, it is nice to have options. However, a first alpha release in 2026? That's more than a year away. A lot of stuff will happen until then, not unlikely that this gets stomped before that.
21compcube 6 points in 2 days
How exactly would it "get stomped", and by whom?
6
Cube6392
3 points
in 2 daysBy whom is by google. How I don't know how to answer
3FizzyOrange 14 points in 3 days
Yeah... It's going to take a whole lot more than $1m for this. I am skeptical.
Also not super enthused about another browser written in C++. I skimmed some of their code and it seems pretty high quality, but still... this is going to be chock full of security bugs.
Servo is definitely the more interesting project.
14They're already exploring other languages. C++ just happens be its origin by way of its heritage. It's not their target anymore.
Ultimately, we'll see what happens. I agree that $1mil isn't a ton for a big project, but we don't know, yet, if they'll be able to secure other big donations or not over the course of its life. People have sold stupider ideas to potential donors, so who knows?
20Also not super enthused about another browser written in C++. I skimmed some of their code and it seems pretty high quality, but still… this is going to be chock full of security bugs.
If you are going to do anything stability-based these days, Rust should be a big consideration.
8zqwzzle 8 points in 3 days
I thought this was the meta logo for a second.
8rah 9 points in 3 days
Chris Wanstrath ... $1,000,000 donation
So.. not independent then.
9
ipacialsection
31 points
in 3 daysThe website claims that sponsors have no direct influence on the project ("board seats are not for sale"). The reality is that no project of sufficient scale to fully implement web standards can survive without a significant amount of funding.
31
venoft
5 points
in 2 daysMeanwhile on their website:
Chris Wanstrath (Secretary & Treasurer)
5
cerement
23 points
in 3 daysfrom the FAQ
- How can you be "independent" if you have sponsors?
- All sponsorships are in the form of unrestricted donations. Board seats and other forms of influence are not for sale.
23bionicjoey 24 points in 3 days
The threat of losing future donations if you upset a sponsor is still coercive.
24spikespaz 4 points in 2 days
Not a good first impression (other comments have my thoughts covered) and I think I'll stick with Firefox.
Unless they impress us by re-writing it in a quality-first language, and make all configuration declarative, and drop support for some cruft. They're going to have to try something bold and different to impress me, otherwise, this seems like more of the same, and an uphill battle at that.
4odium -7 points in 2 days
RonSijm
-2 points
tomorrowFollowing the thread:
https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814
"Gender neutral language within build instructions"Like ok, sure, fair enough, but what are they even talking about, they didn't provide examples...
I assume they're talking about these instructions: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/blob/master/README.md
And I don't really see any language that's not gender neutral right?
How do I read the documentation?
When running SerenityOS you can use
manfor the terminal interface, or help for the GUI.That part is pretty hostile, yea. Should probably use the
womanortheycommand instead /s-2You clearly don't know how to read a GitHub MR. On the top menu where you see the conversations tab, you scroll to the right to see the files changed tab.
3sus -7 points tomorrow
fake
0please leave politics out of this
-2This doesn't even have to have anything to do with trans people, it affects cis women too. The current documentation assumes users are male. The changes of the MR would change that to not specify whether users are male or female.
4
Blaze
2 points
in 3 daysWhich immediately makes me asks which codes Firefox takes from Google
2noodlejetski 55 points in 3 days
Firefox is dependent on Google financially, not codeually.
55homesweethomeMrL 27 points in 3 days
“codeually” 😆
27-
Blaze
3 points
in 3 days
Thanks!
3 bolexforsoup 19 points in 3 days
Google pays Firefox a lot of money to make it the default search engine. It also takes like three clicks to swap it to DDG or something you prefer. If I were Mozilla/Firefox, I would take the money too lol
19
